Podcast
Gospel Centered Life and Theology
Peace of God when you enter his rest
Christ’s emotion and the Impassibility of God
Listening to Dr Duncan on Westminster theology now on the impassibility of God. Genesis 6:5 to 6 says God recreated that he made men on the Earth and agreed him into his heart.
So in Westminster confession chapter 2 says God is spirit, and he doesn’t have a body. In Old Testament God uses anthropomorphic expression to describe eternal, spiritual God with our human and anatomy. So the impassibility of God is that God is not controlled by things outside, all his impulses from within and consistent, invisible and incorporeal.
I find it hard to reconcile per se. But Carson’s. NIV study Bible says:
NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible Notes) 6:6 regretted. Does sin cause God to change his mind? Elsewhere the answer is no (Mal 3:6; Heb 6:17; Jas 1:17). Yet some passages suggest the opposite (1 Sam 15:11 [but see v. 29]; Jonah 3:10). God is involved personally with humanity. While his final purpose for humanity does not change, his means to carry that purpose forward may.
I find it very agreeable on the last sentence that purpose of God does not change, his means to carry the purpose forward, May. I think there’s exactly what happened to Genesis chapter 6. God changed his means achieving the purpose which has never changed. I guess the question is was he emotionally actually grieved? I would say that, even if he was grieved as scripture says, And as many scars as anthropomorphic expression, there is no contradiction because his purpose doesn’t change, his emotional response does not change his purpose, and therefore he is still unchangeable, immutable, and therefore impassible.
Jesus expressed his emotion frequently like he wept for Lazarus on his death with his sister, Mary and Mariam. I think it is incredibly important for God to feel our emotions and actually identify with us emotionally and not a detached stoic God that would’ve been like pantheism or Greek gods.
Jesus cried out for the lost sheep of Israel that he longs to gather them as little chicks.
I guess the argument against that will be Jesus expressed his emotion as a man the incarnate God, but if we want to draw a connection to the emotional heartbeat of God, the only expression of that on earth will be the heart beat of Christ walking on earth as he is also the perfect image of God. He is God. I will find it astonishing for God to incarnate into this world and expressed his emotions, scholars would explain that as an anthropomorphic expression of God. But Christ is also God walking on earth in a strange way. That dichotomy is therefore almost like a social construct to delineate it quite unnecessarily.
To argue for the unchangeability of God, the immutability of God, that is easy that even Gen 6 God was grieved and he regretted making mankind because they were evil sinners. But he never changed because he is still a loving God and compassionate and a righteous holy God. His purpose never change. Is just a on the spot manifestation of his emotion on individual cases that does not contradict impassibility and immutability.
As for the sources of research, I will look into Augustine in his confession , which is really a powerful book that book in itself consolidate humans emotions with God and in fact, it will be impossible for Augustine to write that on an emotionless God. Augustine will never agree with the God that does not grieve inside or rejoice over us.
Other sources like the Institute by John Calvin and some patristic literature and the historical theology I’m sure.
So my conclusion, the incarnate God came as a man to express the heartbeat of God, and if we take that away, defeats part of this incarnation expression or manifestation of his majesty, and the reality of who God is.
My cultural conditioning and cultural context in church planting
I come from a culture in church upbringing of charismatic evangelical church background, and later in involved in planting churches. From the childhood days, I grew up in a Methodist church background with my mom. I would say the charismatic worship in churches have impacted me a lot since university days.
My wife and I have sensed the call of God in planting church and pastoring. It has been a real joy and challenging in the midst of it. It is without any shadow of doubt it is the Lord who directed our path as a family in doing rather radical things. We are from an international church planting movement, and we have planted churches back in Malaysia, and then God called us to come over here in the US to continue the ministry as a bi-vocational ministry , very much like what’s called tent-making ministry of Paul in the NT. We have seen churches successfully planted and pastored, however the latest one in Manhattan has stalled. So with that background, I have struggled to understand the culture here in New York, and also what I should be doing. Saying all these we with our children had moved from Malaysian culture to Californian culture, and just over 10 years ago, to the New York culture, it has to be the Lord who strengthens us and been our hope.
In trying to reach out to New Yorkers, it really depends on which part of the city you live in. The city is notoriously expensive, and for any church planting, finance is of the utmost in one’s head immediately. From what I see, most church planters raise funds, forgo their own vocation professional jobs, and heavily depend on the more lucrative income from their wives., without which it is undoable for the cost of living. I will list down some of the major cultural adjustment contextualization.
The Culture of Bi-Vocational Ministry
That’s my background and working as an engineer and doing weekend pastoring. Coming to do that in NYC, I can see why church planters flopped. First, it is such a vast city, the transportation commute just takes too long to do any ministry, and hence Keller in City to City has emphasized the need of cultural immersion, i.e. living in the neighborhood where you want to plant. And that’s also in full time capacity, and I see that that’s beyond my reach, just because we are not financially able to do that also considering the school factors for children. So we ended in Long Island to pastor a weekend church in Manhattan, it has been not the most effective. I struggled in this church plant model. I think if we live among the people neighborhood, even with just mainly a weekend ministry, it would have been much more doable. The cultural be with your people is so very important.
Theological & Philosophical Understanding & Equipping
This has been a real joy in worshipping the Lord in the house of God and sustained me a lot in facing setbacks, struggles with ministry, work, relationship etc. It’s the source of encouragement and strength in worshipping that I would never forget. In the midst of struggling , I have to say the church planting culture that my church movement sent me, is not in line with the style in New York, because you need finance and group support for launching a church, which I have neither. So I was kind of parachuted into Manhattan, and living far away in Long Island, making that church plant incredibly challenging. That’s a huge cultural shock for me, although we had some college students who came and started our church together, but the theology and philosophy of church plant was largely absent from my mind in the American context.
But I would say the lack of theological understanding especially the sovereignty of God in reformed tradition and to be able to see and preach the redemptive narrative of God in Christ are the two most important transformations I received since coming to New York and having met Tim Keller whose sermons are full of these two. After listening to many of his sermon for years, I began to see why it’s so attractive and compelling for people to come to church.
First the divine sovereignty of God
This subject is not something I have ever heard or learnt from my cultural background. My background belongs to the Arminianism theology, with a passion to spread the love of God in Christ and making disciples. And pastors, almost all, do not have formal education training in seminary schools. It’s all about your calling and in trusting God, to plough the land for sowing the seed of the gospel and nurture a church.
Since coming to NYC, I heard enough of Keller’s sermons that I sensed that aspect of who God is missing with me. To see God as sovereign brings a lot of fresh air, comfort and edification to my heart, because I being to realize that, even in the time of failure (my church plant failed), and time of waiting, there is a sense of which, I can rest in Him, and wait for his timing and way to launch. That’s what calmed me down, given me rest in Him. And that’s the divine providence of God out of his goodness and grace. This changed my outlook tremendously, about life, ministry, and families. It’s hard for people not to be hardened and discouraged at times when things are going tough, without the assurance of the sovereignty and divine providence of God. That’s why many blame God when they don’t get what they asked for after long time, without such understanding and hence trust in the almighty God and all wise God.
Second, the entire theological education
From my culture background, theology training is not held high, because its very practical driven theology, and experiential type. As long as you love the Lord and serve him, you are good to go, regardless of whatever your theological trancing is. While heart condition is number one in all things with God, knowledge of theology is right there number two, and without the word of God theology, a good heart can only operate on a far diminished form from the richness of the word of God which has great transformation power. I would say therefore this has brought tremendous blessing to my life. It’s also about that time, Tim Keller brought in RTS to New York city, and when I heard that, I was overjoyed and joined the 3rd cohort. It’s an incredible blessing that I could get my theological training in the fold of Tim Keller. I would say that’s really the divine providence of God, and looking back, that’s probably the best thing happened to my life for a long time. To me, that’s really a turning point tin my life and our ministry. And above all, my own relationship with the Lord has taken on a breath-taking wider horizon, simply because I now know Him much better.
Thirdly on the area of worship
I see that my background worship differs quite substantially from reformed worship which is generally the case with most professors and student in RTS, though there are some charismatics, and Baptists etc. I would say, this is a strange culture, and I do see the beauty of singing hymns, as theology is rich, and combining it with the more contemporary songs with hands lifting and expression of celebration is what I look for. Worship is a place of where we meet God corporately on Sundays, and this can be the most beautiful moment that can be and should be built upon. I do know the regulative worship in PCA, and certainly some charismatic worship songs tend to run too shallow theologically, and this is where I, after all my training in school, would be able to discern and adapt what’s best theologically, and worship tune wise. I think my desire and planning is to see a church that combines both styles of worship, Word based centered, and Spirit empowered.
Fourthly the New York culture is really a very busy hectic culture driven by work in an expensive city.
So for us to reach out to them, I love the most from what Keller teaches as in adaptation to the culture (seeing the common grace), and later the confrontation of their culture idols to meet their real needs. To bring in the redemptive messages to show them what they hope for can never be fulfilled by their normal ways unless they come to the God who created us. This is easy said than done, and requires a lot of relationship building etc. As all known too well, work is among the idols
I do see the possible opening of the gospel and that’s through the daily burdens of life. There is value system in my background that’s totally different from the post Christian America today. And to meet the New Yorkers, the personal touch of it doesn’t come easy, obviously a lot of community building is required, and this needs manpower and time.
Fifth is the area of prayer
This is an incredibly important and powerful area form my church culture background. I see there is hardly any organized meetings for prayer. In our backgrounds, we hold prayer meeting once a week, and we poured our hearts to God together and believe God will do the rest. It’s a real uplifting times as we spend time together and humble ourselves before God. People see the hearts of leadership, and that goes a long way. I would love to gather folks together regularly for prayers. Prayer needs to be seen by people and so we can all ray together, instead of just listening to one person praying. The corporate prayers, or break into small groups prayers, has been. So conducive for church growth and touching the people outside.
Conclusion
In conclusion, I thank God for my upbringing culture. To be able to continue to develop the call of God and in the culture, God has put us in, is the most exciting thing and I look forward to what the Lord has for us coming up. I see the charismatic spiritual gift culture that I received will fit in very well, if operated like 1 Cor 13, coupled with good God centered expositional messages, I foresee a great future reaching the folks right in New York city or anywhere else. The strength from my cultural background has propelled me and family gone that far with God in this land, however, it will take the next move of God to see the Spirit of God working .
Myth Becomes Fact: A critical analysis on God in the Dock by CS Lewis
Introduction
CS Lewis believed that myths, despite originating from various cultures and religions, often contain elements of truth and longing that resonate with humanities innate spiritual yearnings. He saw myth as a natural language through which deep root spiritual realities could be communicated. Lewis draws upon with the logical motif and narrative to illustrate and reinforce Christian concepts and themes. For example, in the Chronicles of Narnia, he uses the mythical realm of Chronicles of Narnia to explore fundamental Christian ideas such as redemption, sacrificial love, and the battle between good and evil. By weaving Christian themes into familiar mythic landscapes, Lewis invites readers to engage with profound truths in a captivating and relatable way.
Myth, Imagination & Supernatural & Aesthetic Experience
In that essay, Lewis analyzed two types of faith viz, the intellectual faith, and the religious or faith or trust in God which experiences the numinous (supernatural). He equates that the intellectual faith is the precondition for numinous faith. He calls it the feelings aroused by numinous is awe, very much like the awe of God in the OT.[1]
He finds the seed of religious experience in our experience of the numinous. In our age like our own such experience does occur and but, until religion comes and retrospectively transforms it, it usually appears to the subject to be a special form of aesthetic experience. [2]
By that he means if we don’t have religion in our life, what’s really the works of the transcendent God would simply be labelled as something beautiful without God. He argues that faith does not come from the experience of the philosophical arguments alone, numinous experience alone, but from historical events that transcends the moral category, which demand their presupposition the existence of God.
The Apologetic Value of Myth
CS Lewis writes, “Taking the point in particular the old myth of the dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history and happened on a particular date, particular place, and definable historical consequence. We passed from history to a historical person crucified by Pontius Pilot, so that myth became fact.” [3]
All that’s like the transcendent God coming down to earth, is just to too good to be true, and yet it is really myth became fact. And if that happened, that will energize the whole base of humanity to move closer to knowing and experiencing transcendent God. It’s also part of the curiosity and inquisitiveness of human nature to be drawn with something fascinating, something beyond us.
I think the beauty and power of mythical thinking in apologetics is to open and provide a way for us to connect to the mysterious and mythical element of the transcendent God. Too often, case in point, Easter just becomes a commercial social celebration gathering with Easter bunnies etcetera because people lost touch with the mythical and the mysterious aspect of the dying God on the cross. We must communicate that to the unbelievers in the world so that they can appreciate Good Friday and Easter that it is not just a ceremonial process in the good old Christian customs but rather it is part of the greatest mystery and myth of Christianity that a God-Man was crucified in time and space. This is not only good for apologetics for non-believers but this is hugely beneficial and essential for Christian flourishing too.
Wonder & Delight because of the mythical radiance from God
We are also telling unbelievers and the Christians that if and when they choose to believe in Christ, they need to understand that it is not a mere assent to the intellectual story of Christ death on the cross, but it is essential to embrace the mythical and mysterious aspect of such crucifixion of a God man. To be convinced the supernatural that is that even possible naturally.
The mythical aspect of the gospel as Lewis puts it, “claims not only our love and our obedience but also our wonder and delight because of the mythical radiance resting on theology as God chooses to be mythopoeic and myth pathetic, therefore we want to respond in light manner.” [4]
And that is to respond not only with obedience and with love but also with the wonder and delight. So the apologetics to the non-believers and even believers is the aspect of wonder and delight in the God who speaks to us in such intensity and passion.
Christianity likened to modern English Monarch with the form, but the reality abandoned
CS Lewis writes on his friend, “ Corineus advanced that…Modern Christianity basically just believes a modern system of thought which retains the vocabulary of Christianity and exploits the emotions inherited from it while quietly dropping its essential doctrines. He compared modern Christianity with the modern English monarch, the forms of kingship have been retained, but the reality has been abandoned. [5]
This is conceivably the saddest that has happened and is happening in reality in our culture in our days today and for millennia. That’s because people adopted the tradition of Christianity the forms and the shapes and all this but abandoned the orthodoxy the essential doctrines. And this is all happening towards churches that have gone liberal jettisoned core doctrines of the holy scripture that in inerrant word of God. That becomes an inherent problem why many unbelievers are confused because they don’t see any real difference between the church and the world.
Lewis’s friend is contending that why would educate it enlighten pseudo-Christians insist on expressing their deepest thoughts in items of the arcade mythology which must hamper and embarrass them at every turn? [6]
What he’s called is mythology are the so-called historical essential doctrines of the church from the Bible come if you call them as such, you have not read the bible. And these Christians they are absolutely precious and the fundamental core of the entire Christianity let alone cutting them off. I take it that people feel the historical essential doctrines of the Bible are outdated somehow and they want to jump on the modern or postmodernism bandwagon, but that’s exactly and Antichrist book as described in the Bible.
The scariest thing and upsetting thing is what CS Lewis called the “clergyman becoming intellectual prostitutes or preach for pay”- and thereby created what he called as the darkening of conscience among thousands of men. [7]
The biggest problem what I see from the here is that the misconception of the modernity calling historical orthodoxy doctrines of the word of God as myths. I get that more souls removed from the historical orthodoxy in church and with the postmodernism and modernism pounding on our philosophy and the culture on a daily basis, it won’t be hard to imagine that there is a disdain from the culture towards anything historical orthodoxy push appears to be binding to them. So Lewis sort of rides along with them taking on what they call as myth and expound what is really important on ‘myths’, those doctrines.
To combat that criticism of Christianity holding on to the old historical doctrines, Lewis warned of dropping to a darkening of conscience of men and women who don’t know real Christianity anymore.
He, therefore, in a very radical way, creatively asked the question, “If they want to cut off from this what is called vestigial mythology, would not be would it be, “Much easier for the mother of invalid child if she put it into an institution and adopt someone else healthy baby instead. Life would be far easier to many a man if he abandoned the woman he has actually fall in love with and marry someone else because she’s more suitable.[8]
So if the nonbelieving world think that our Christian orthodoxy doctrines are like myth, Lewis argues, “Even assuming (which I almost certainly deny) the doctrines of historic Christianity are nearly mythical, it is the myth which is the vital and nourishing element in the whole concern. ” So Lewis arguing that his friend once us to move with the times, very much like today. society wants us to move with the time and not wanting to stay with historical orthodoxy of Bible. Lewis right the time actually move away. But in religion, we find something that does not move away. It is the myth that abide, it is what he caused the modern and living thought that moves away. I think that is absolutely correct to say that I will modern thoughts and modernity and philosophy keeps moving and changing and moving. The only thing that is absolute is the historical orthodoxy word of God. For example he quoted the pagan revival of Julian apostate, the Nix, the monism of Aus, the deem of, the dogmatic materialism of the great vans. They have all moved with the times. And the thing that were all attacking remains. The myth has outlived the thoughts of all its defenders and all its adversaries. It is the myth that gives life. This apologetics is powerful because Lewis is arguing that the very thing that modernity all the idioms and religions they have been attacking Christianity orthodoxy scripture all moving, they all moved along with times. In other words, position on religion and believe kit, moving there is no certainty or concreteness about it. In comparison, it is the religion, so-called myth of the historical orthodox doctrines they stay and never change very much like the Lord God never changes. The meet is outlived of thoughts of its defenders and all its adversaries. It’s the myth that gives life.
Lewis talked about we are not knowing the abstract meaning at all, but tasting it. But We were testing turns out to be universal principal. The moment we state this principle, we are admittedly back in the world of abstraction. It is only wow receiving the myth as a story that you experience the principal concrete.
So he is saying that the idea of me as an abstraction as an abstraction, and it is only when we take the myth as a story that we can experience the principal concrete. Another words, the so-called myth of Christianity must be received as a story so that we can experience the principle of the story concrete.
He wrote that myth consents thought, incarnation transcend Smith. The heart of Christianity is a myth, which is also a fact. The all myth of the dying guard without seizing to be miss, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the Earth of histories. It happens – at a particular date, in a particular place, forward by definable historical consequences. We passed from Boulder, die. Nobody knows when away, to a historical person, crucified, and punished by pilot. By becoming fact, it does not seize to be a myth, that’s the miracle.
So Lewis is arguing that the heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact. I would agree that truly Christianity is a myth because to have the God of the universe Hung on the cross and bleeding 2000 years ago for redemption of mankind, does sound very much like a myth to many, who have not believed in the gospel. I love that. He said the myth of the dying guard on the cross does not seize to be myth, and it comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the Earth of history. I definitely agree that it is a mess because, Jesus, came down from heaven of legend and imagination to the Earth of history. He actually happens a particular time and place and a date. To combine as a fact for the crucifixion of the dying guard on the cross is a powerful testimony of the incarnation of God and the suffering of Christ for humanity. Luis calls the crucifixion national seize to be made: that is the miracle. I hundred percent agree that the myth is the miracle.
Lewis wrote that he suspects men have sometimes derived more spiritual sustenance from myths. They do not believe then from the religion, the profession. There is so much truth in it and shame on many, who profess some kind of believe in Christ in the religion of Christianity have been changed in transformed in the lives because there is no personal conviction. It is what is called the Christianity or Christian by name or cultural Christian. It is fascinating for him to write that, actually more spiritual sustenance for Smith, and I think that is relatable because myth is fascinating supernatural thing of people that you don’t even know whether it’s true or not but certainly it sounds pretty profound. So Luis wrote that to be truly sent to historical fact of the dying on the cross, and also receive the, with the same imagination, imaginative embrace which we accord to all myths. For myth and fact merges on the cross.
Myth: a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
The definition of myth. It’s a story of. The early history of people that involves supernatural beings. This is a really important take because. The whole of redemptive narrative of God in Christ Jesus is supernatural and therefore in the eyes of the world, in many ways, it’s a myth. Just to clarify myth has been sort of misconceived commonly that it is something that is not true, but the definition of myth is something supernatural which can be true or. Not true. So when Louise talks about the dying God on the cross does not cease to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history, is a profound statement. He’s able to connect something that is most profound in the world which is the death of the transcendent God on the cross and that is definitely supernatural because the death of God is impossible but that is the death of a human in Christ Jesus who is both God and man. Baloise brilliantly connects the myth nature crucifixion of Christ on the cross 2 an actual event in space and time in history. He’s contrasting the myth legend of boulder die nobody knows when or where, to a historical person crucified under Pontius pilot. That myth became fact on the cross. However that myth does not cease to be myth and that is the miracle. The word miracle is the exact word needed to describe the event because of what happened on the cross it’s nothing less than miraculous and definitely myth became fact. The problem with the very materially wired world today is not able to see the myth the mythical aspect of the cross, but merely seeing the human dying on the cross. Besides frankly even many who believed Christ died on the cross for humans sins and received Christ as believers, have no head much lively spirit spirituality in this earthly world. Louis rightly said a man who disbelieved the Christian story is fact but continually fed on it as Smith would come up perhaps, be more spiritually alive than one who ascended and did not think much about it. The key problem is those Christians or supposedly born again Christians who believed the story of crucifixion but didn’t think much about it, has not brought much transformation to their lives. On the other hand, however, those who did not believe in the Christian crucifixion as fact but just believed it as a myth, Lewis argued, are perhaps more spiritually alive. There’s a real danger of just assent to it as intellectual knowledge but without absorbing and soaking in the mythical aspect of the Christian narrative redemption story.
I would argue that the word myth in in the Christ redemption narrative story it’s really equivalent to supernatural or miracle. It is indeed without a shadow of doubt Christianity without supernatural is a human story devoid of the divinity, taking the two most potent events in Christianity which is the incarnation of God into this world Christmas, and the son of God offered as a sacrifice to redeem mankind on the cross. Both prominent events are profoundly supernatural and hence mythical. So for us to communicate this to the non believers, we have to convey the mythical aspect of the entire redemption story.
Lewis writes, we must not be ashamed of the mythical radiance resting in our theology. We must not be nervous about parallels and pagan idols: they ought to be there dash you’d be a stumbling block if they weren’t. We must not, enforce spirituality, withhold our imagination welcome. If God chooses to be a mythopoeic dash and is not the sky itself a myth dash shall we refuse to be Mr. pathic? For this is the marriage of heaven and earth: perfect myth and perfect fact: claiming not only our love and our obedience, but also I will wonder and delight, address to the savage, the child, and the poet in each one of us no less than to the moralist, the scholar, and the philosopher.
I would agree that God has revealed himself in a very mythical manner or what he called his mythopoeic call mom by us examining the incarnation and crucifixion and resurrection. And the fact that Christianity is so mythical and supernatural, louis is right to say that we must not withhold our imaginative welcome. If God chooses to be mythopoeic and is not the sky itself a myth, shall we refuse to myopathic? So he’s right that we are only paint attention to myth or call myopathic because God chooses to be mythopoeic, by even just looking at the sky itself it’s a mystery and myth, the entire creation of the world it’s in such amazingly profound complexity that beyond any human engineering imagination. Therefore it is actually a myth that became fact. For anyone to approach Christianity without touching the supernatural or the myth it’s not can you to know the real faith and religion in Christ Jesus the transcendent God who created the world.
I love the fact that Lewis brought in the sense of imagination to cross the bridge from what is natural in the material world to the supernatural world which he calls it as myth. I would only critique do is in the sense that he did not bring the word supernatural in his apologetics discourse, although he’s alluding to it big time through the word myth. The entire Bible is a myth in a sense because it is totally supernatural starting from Genesis all the way to Revelations. We can’t even pass the first chapter of Genesis without believing in and acknowledging the supernatural work and power of God as he called out the different creation and speak them into being and create them actually ex-Nihilo. In other words he created everything out of nothing. That is supernatural and therefore isn’t that a myth?
I would argue that bringing mythical imagination into the apologetics of believing in Christ the Son of God the savior of the world, we will enrich and still with the mind of the folks whether they believe in Christ or not. For Christians it will be a challenge and stirring of hearts and challenging them to stretch themselves into the supernatural by faith. There are plenty of Christians today who do not quite believe in the supernatural and the whole aspect of faith has not really been exercised or taught much. So this paper is to help the unbelievers to cross the bridge from the natural to the supernatural. Lewis said that a mere intellectual assent to the doctrine of Christ crucifixion and resurrection will not sufficiently build a complete born again story.
I think it is particularly powerful when Lewis described that the heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact referring specifically to the old myth of the dying God without ceasing to be myth, comes down from heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history. It happens at a particular date, particular place ,followed by definable historical consequences. We pass from time, nobody knows when or where, to a historical person crucified under Pontius pilot. To me this is particularly powerful when Lewis described the entire incarnation of the Son of God from the heaven, the legend, in imagination to the earth of history is a supreme myth and that is nothing short of the miracle. And also to see a God the dying God on the cross is another supreme myth that became miracle. The power of myth is so powerful that it transcends even a pure intellectual assent to a religion people professed. Like he said man have sometimes derive more spiritual sustenance from myths they did not believe then from the religion they professed.
That shows how much power is contained in the very sustenance of myth even though they don’t really believe in it, because the very myth contains so much supernaturally charged mystery and power that overwhelms the mere intellectual assent to a religion. And that to me is very powerful in apologetics in driving people to search for the supernatural and not being content with the natural full of intellectual discussion and apologetics. That’s why I believe that intellectual apologetics does not cut it, although I believe the transcendental approach of apologetics by Vantil is in the route of supernatural or myth and that’s why it cuts it as well.
Lewis writes, “It is not reason that is taking away my faith: on the contrary, my faith is based on reason. It is my imagination and emotions. The battle is between faith and reason on one side and emotion and imagination on the other”.[9]
Lewis writes, “I start thinking I am going to choke, and I am afraid they will start cutting me up before I am properly under. In other words, I lose my faith in anesthetics. It is not reason that is taking away my faith: on the contrary, my faith is based on reason. It is my imagination and emotions. The battle is between faith and reason on one side and emotion and imagination on the other.[10]
Lewis writes, “Christians need to be reminded that what became fact was a myth, that it carries with it into the world of fact all the properties of a myth. God is more than a god, not less; Christ is more than Balder, not less. We must not be ashamed of the mythical radiance resting on our theology. We must not, in false spirituality, withhold our imaginative welcome. If God chooses to be mythopoeic- and it’s not the sky itself a myth- shall we refuse to be myopathic? For this is the marriage of heaven and earth; Perfect myth and perfect fact; Claiming not only our love and our obedience, but also our wonder in delight, addressed to the savage, the child, and the poet in each one of us no less than to the moralist, the scholar, and the philosopher”.
-I think Lewis just made Christianity so much more alive and personal, something not only to be obeyed and followed in obedience, and with love, but indeed with wonder and delight. That’s a huge contribution to humanity understanding of Christianity because no one, even though rejecting Christianity or just being ignorant, will reject delight and wonder in a religion. To deprive Christianity of wonder and delight is to make the God of miracles and love and passion into a stoic idle that doesn’t speak or move.
The Myth of Incarnation, Predestination & Election
“The central miracle asserted by Christians is the Incarnation. They say that God became Man. Every other miracle prepares for this, or exhibits this, or results from this.” – C.S. Lewis, Miracles, 173.
Lewis calls Incarnation as the “Grand Miracle”. All the miracles in OT prepare for the Grand miracle—Incarnation. Incarnation of God into a human is mind blowing to any sane educated folks, unless you reach into the dimension of faith. There is no way for anyone to understand and hence believe that without being supernaturally touched by the Spirit of God, and what’s called regeneration of our soul/spirit by the Spirit. And that’s why it’s the biggest stumbling block to the Jews, and foolishness to the Greeks who seek wisdom (1 Cor 1:22-25). It is something humanly impossible and outrageously scandalous in the minds of all civilizations, and that’s why Jesus took the Roman world, the Jewish nation by storm, when he finally resurrected from death. It is such outlandishly extravagant that, God precisely demonstrated his love and grace beyond even the best poets can conjure up a love story of such magnitude and power. That’s all in the eyes of many unbelievers a myth. And if we can tap into it, and explain with conviction, it will be apologetically powerful. Not only that, when one gets into, he deep reflection of such act of God, there is nothing but just sheer deepening of our souls, and understanding and affection for Christ. And that’s transformative.
God chose Israel not because of something in Israel (Deut 7:6–8), but He refers to his promise to Israel’s ancestor, Abraham. So, we have to go to Abraham:
Genesis 12:1–2 Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. 2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing.
Why did God choose Abraham? It’s a mystery, and myth. Because no one really understands. I concur what Dr Hoffecker said that God sees something in a man’s heart that we don’t. Like God told Samuel that man looks at the outside, but God looks at the inside. (1 Sam 16:7).
Therefore things that we don’t know, and hence tend to speculate, best left to the transcendent God who knows it all even before the foundation of the earth (Eph 1:4), He has destined us to before saved. Paul wrote that he was chosen and called by the Lord even before he was born (Gal 1:15-17).
So, all these to speak of the mystery of God and an important verse to explain this all is:
Deuteronomy 29:29 (ESV)
29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
We must settle in not knowing and understanding the predestination which is. Major pillar doctrine of Christianity, and that belongs to the category of mystery, and in the sight of artists, unbelievers, they become myth. So, there is enormous untapped power and potential in the mythical thinking and projection like Lewis has so elegantly and powerfully captured them. Of course, there are also many ungodly myths from of old, but that doesn’t cancel the good myths that Christian can take hold of, and develop them to enrich our own spiritual life and also connect with the non-believers mind set apologetically.
Conclusion
I think the apologetic value of myth is tremendous as per CS Lewis, taking the point in particular the old myth of the dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history and happened on a particular date, particular place, and definable historical consequence. We passed from history to a historical person crucified by Pontius Pilot, so that myth became fact. All that like the transcendent God coming down to earth, is just to too good to be true, and yet it is really myth became fact. And if that happened, that would energize the whole base of humanity to move closer to knowing and experiencing transcendent God. It’s also part of the curiosity and inquisitiveness of human nature to be drawn with something fascinating, something beyond us.
I think the beauty and power of mythical thinking in apologetics is to open and provide a way for us to connect to the mysterious and mythical element of the transcendent God. Too often, case in point, Easter just becomes a commercial social celebration gathering with Easter bunnies etcetera because people lost touch with the mythical and the mysterious aspect of the dying God on the cross. We must communicate that to the unbelievers in the world so that they can appreciate Good Friday and Easter that it is not just a ceremonial process in the good old Christian customs but rather it is part of the greatest mystery and myth of Christianity that a God man was crucified in time and space. This is not only good for apologetics for non-believers, but this is hugely beneficial and essential for Christian flourishing too.
We are also telling unbelievers and the Christians that if and when they choose to believe in Christ, they need to understand that it is not a mere assent to the intellectual story of Christ death on the cross, but it is essential to embrace the mythical and mysterious aspect of such crucifixion of a God man. To be convinced the supernatural that is that even possible naturally.
The mythical aspect of the gospel as Lewis puts it, claims not only our love and our obedience but also our wonder and delight because of the mythical radiance resting on theology as God chooses to be mythopoeic and myth pathetic, therefore we want to respond in light manner. And that is to respond not only with obedience and with love but also with the wonder and delight. So, the apologetics to the non-believers and even believers is the aspect of wonder and delight in the God who speaks to us in such intensity and passion.
[1] CS Lewis, Is Theism Important? –God in the Dock, ( Zondervan: ) 187
[2] Ibid, 187
[3] CS Lewis, God in the Dock (Zondervan: )
[4] Ibid
[5] CS Lewis, God in the Dock, (Wm. B. Eerdmans: Grand Rapids) 54
[6] Ibid, 54
[7] Ibid, 54
[8] Ibid, 55
[9] CS Lewis, Mere Christianity, (Harper Collins: New York, 2001) 138
[10] Ibid, 140
We destroy wrong holds and take captive thought to obey Christ
Transformationist model engagement with Culture
I agree with what Keller talked about what transformation excited is not building up the church but penetrating the bastions of cultural influence for Christ. I can see that like what Keller said that, much of the excitement & creative energy ends up focusing on cosmic or social redemption rather than bringing about personal conversion through evangelism and discipleship. And I can also see what his quoted James K Smith who insisted the liturgy and practices of church communities are critical for the formation of worldview. I would say just as Keller said, pietism tended to lift up full time ministry and denigrates secular vocations, transformations can lead to the opposite extreme, I think we should not drop the transformationist model just because their tendency is on the outside of church redemption rather than inside, because I think if we could do both, it will be fantastic. Pietism mode of building up the internal church through conversion, the evangelism, discipleship should be a given for any church, however the transformationist model for the outside of the church redemption is rare.
I agree that transformationist has the potential danger of being triumphalist for self-righteous and overconfident ,it’s ability both to understand God’s will for society and to bring it about. I think essentially this due to conservative biblical evangelical upbringing seeing what should be happening in the society from the word of God. The reality is the world outside the church is not the same as the church per se, and it will be impractical, totally unrealistic to impose of such changes on the society i.e. culture outside the church.
I also agree transformationism has often put too much stock in politics as a way to change culture. He quoted James Hunter saying government politics is only a set that is downstream from the true sources of cultural change which happens in the Academy, the arts, the media companies, and the cities. The real influence happens in teaching schools, publishing books producing, plays movies, slowly the public opinions begins to shift. I somewhat agreed to this however if we were to follow strictly this route, and not following the transformationist route, we would have another million babies aborted if it were not for the changes that was brought about by political Presidential change in the White House and consequently in the Supreme Court justices. As much as it is highly controversial and difficult to bring about political change, I will stand by the transformationisms approach bringing up about changes in the politics i.e. by prayers, evangelism, and preaching the word of God.
I agree one of the weak points of transformationism is the apparent absence on the concern for the poor which is really a big agenda in the mind of God as we read from the scriptures. Keller talks about coerciveness from the transformationist, it would be hard to see that happening anytime soon in America, and I do not see that as a concern. On the contrary, for right now the woke is on top of her, canceling anyone who wants to speak of conservative voice case in point including the church.
Flee from adult versus woman woman who speech drips with honey
The Apologetic Value of Myth– CS Lewis’s Myth became Fact

I think the apologetic value of myth is tremendous as per CS Lewis, taking the point in particular the old myth of the dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history and happened on a particular date, particular place, and definable historical consequence. We passed from history to a historical person crucified by Pontius Pilot, so that myth became fact.[1] All that like the transcendent God coming down to earth, is just to too good to be true, and yet it is really myth became fact. And if that happened, that will energize the whole base of humanity to move closer to knowing and experiencing transcendent God. Its also part of the curiosity and inquisitiveness of human nature to be drawn with something fascinating, something beyond us.
I think the beauty and power of mythical thinking in apologetics is to open and provide a way for us to connect to the mysterious and mythical element of the transcendent God. Too often, case in point, Easter just becomes a commercial social celebration gathering with Easter bunnies etcetera because people lost touch with the mythical and the mysterious aspect of the dying God on the cross. We must communicate that to the unbelievers in the world so that they can appreciate Good Friday and Easter that it is not just a ceremonial process in the good old Christian customs but rather it is part of the greatest mystery and myth of Christianity that a God man was crucified in time and space. This is not only good for apologetics for non-believers but this is hugely beneficial and essential for Christian flourishing too.
We are also telling unbelievers and the Christians that if and when they choose to believe in Christ, they need to understand that it is not a mere assent to the intellectual story of Christ death on the cross, but it is essential to embrace the mythical and mysterious aspect of such crucifixion of a God man. To be convinced the supernatural that is that even possible naturally.
The mythical aspect of the gospel as Lewis puts it, claims not only our love and our obedience but also our wonder and delight because of the mythical radiance resting on theology as God chooses to be mythopoeic and myth pathetic, therefore we want to respond in light manner. And that is to respond not only with obedience and with love but also with the wonder and delight. So the apologetics to the non-believers and even believers is the aspect of wonder and delight in the God who speaks to us in such intensity and passion.
[1] CS Lewis, God in the Dock